31st March

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pankajp	31st March	Lead	[-]
Posts: 341 (03/18/09 06:55:22) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Without meaning any disrespect to IRAS officers, may I [a non-IRAS participant] ask the participants: 1. Why it is so important to spend more and more in sanctioned works, specially in month of March? 2. Why actual payment is made even upto 6th or 7th April in contracts involving sanctioned works, funded from Capital/DRF/DF etc (i.e. non-revenue) and shown backdated as payment made on 31-March? Our public sector banks also fully cooperate in this public deception. 3. Why same IRAS officer, who will save every penny of Revenue expenditure, do not hesistate to break all rules of Financial properiety when it comes to expenditure in month of March every year and specially on 31-March? 4. Are Rules, specially financial rules , meant differently for Revenue expenditure and expenditure funded from Plan expenditure? Once again, apologies in advance.
prashant73	no apologies	#1	[-]
Posts: 42 (03/18/09 07:59:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Please don't be so formal. There is no reason to be apologetic just to have a free and fair discussion. I am no expert on the subject (despite being from IRAS). But I know that there is nothing very scandalous happening on 31st March. If we don't do this, then the budget on plan expenditure will not be utilised. Not only we may get an audit para for surrender of funds (which you had mentioned earlier) but also get less budget grant the following year. And there is also 'pressure' from the suppliers and contractors to get their due payments done, otherwise they will have to wait for next year's budget allotment. And we don't break the rules of financial propriety. Only the payment cycle gets tuned/aligned to the budget cycle by a mere 'manual adjustment' of the date. Cash Book for March is kept open for a few days before it is officially closed. (But it cannot be open for 7-8 days. Audit will jump on it). It may not be the best way to work. A robust and fully computerised financial system will not allow this. But perhaps when we are dealing with very process-driven, large and bureucratic system, such 'manual adjustments' impart flexibility while working.
pankajp	flexibility	#2	[-]
Posts: 342 (03/18/09 19:45:10) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	What will happen to such flexibility when 100% payment is made to all contractors/suppliers using EFT/ECS? Why such flexibility is not shown while examining proposals for vetting of NS requisitions with Revenue?
prashant73	be more specific	#3	[-]
Posts: 43 (03/19/09 02:58:55) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	While there was no need to be apologetic there is certainly a need to be more specific. EFT/ECS??? Vetting of NS requisitions for revenue??? How is that related to Cash book closing on March end?
subbu98		#4	[-]
Posts: 180 (03/19/09 10:51:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I will tell you why in a very simplistic way. Revenue expenditure affects the operating ratio. Capital does not. Now don't ask what is the worth of operating ratio. It somehow is very worthy. It matters to the whole system. You and I are small cogs. Now there is a thing called fund utilization. It matters a lot to you as the executive. That's a major benchmark for your performance. I only lend a helping hand. Team work!!! Though personally I would rather have you working with that efficiency consistently. Not in the last month or the last week. I'm not aware of any IRAS officer conniving with you for any fraudulent payment. One incident from my Railway on planned expenditure. An electrical senior complained to me, "hum Board se ladh ladh ke itna fund laate hein aur tum humara proposals concur nahin karte. Humari naak kat jaati hai Board ke saamne." I thought for a while of the crime I am committing and replied politely: "Sir, aap Board se fund laane ke liye ladhai karne mein jyada samay jaaya naa karein aur aisa zarooratmand proposal banane mein samay lagaein jinko hum bina fund ka bhi Board ke appreciation ke liye concur karenge." The point that I am trying to make is that it works as a yardstick of someone's performance to get more funds, to get more proposals through, etc. An extension of the same is to benchmark how much fund I have utilized. It is a desirable thing if the projections were prudent to start with. If they were not prudent to start with or if you were inefficient for most part of the year, you would be seen running to the IRAS officer on the last day to make your performance look respectable. Some of them accede to your capital request and act finicky about the revenue one. For the reason I have stated at the outset. So you should be thankful to such benevolent souls.
pankajp	explanation	#5	[-]
Posts: 343 (03/19/09 22:26:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	1. If 100% payment in case of Works contract is to be made by ECS/NEFT, will this "Flexibility" on part of accounts be possible? 2. Present system treats purchase of Non-stock items like a SIN being committed against Indian Railways. First prepare NS requisition, get it vetted, send it to stores and then Forget it till PO is issued by stores department (if it is issued). Then chase the firm on which this PO is issued to get the material. At the time of vetting of NS requisition itself, submit basis of rate. Now, Finance wing of some zonal railways ask for more than one quotation as a basis of rate. So keep on the fight. What every one forgets is that the item being purchased using NS route is for maintenance of some Railway assets and non-availability of this NS item may affect the service being delivered to the Railway Customer. A little flexibility in vetting of such NS requisitions (under Revenue) will definitely help executive in performing their functions as further fight is to be done with material managers so that item can be received. 3. This delay in purchase of NS items has resulted in introduction of SITC route by executives particularly of Electrical,S&T and Mechanical departments. Recently, one of the mechanical workshop on a zonal railway floated an open tender for "Design, Fabrication, supply, erection and installation of Modular Workstation with File Storage system- Make- DELITE/ENCORE/VINAR/OMAX/GODREJ or any other similar reputed make for CWM office (Mech. Section)" . Now, this work is to be done using NS route but executives just like to avoid "Material Management" route. Last Edited By: pankajp 03/19/09 23:29:49. Edited 1 times.
prashant73	item wise reply	#6	[-]
Posts: 44 (03/20/09 02:13:03) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	1. ECS/EFT will not change anything about the 'flexibility'. All that happens in EFT/ECS is that instead of drawing the cheque in the name of individual person, we draw one cheque in the name of the Bank (and the Bank transmits the credit to the respective individual account electronically). 2. Present system looks at NS requisition on Revenue very suspiciously and rightly so. The Revenue Repair and Maintenance works are fairly standardised. To carry out the Repair and Maintenance work, we spend a huge part of the Budget purchasing the 'Ordinary stores' items (after getting the annual requirement from the executives about what items are required for repairs and maintenance) and stock them in stores depots. We also assign AMM, DSK's and other staff in the depot only to assist the executive in material management, and the executives can freely draw the material from the depots (subject to the budget provision on Primary unit for Cost of Material from Stores of the revenue grant not being exceeded). After giving so much liberty freedom and power to decide on what to buy and how much to buy and when to draw the material for normal and routine Repair and Maintenance, there should be very little reason to buy Non-Stock items charged to Revenue. So although we have a budget allotment for the NS purchase on Revenue but that should be used with caution as it should ideally be used for one-off items. If there is indeed a good reason to buy some item for routine Repair and Maintenance, then the executive has to stand the scrutiny and justify it. Is that then really unfair? The system is perfectly sound. What is wrong could be the individuals not making the system work effectively. 3. There are many short cuts being employed by the executives subvert the process and SITC is one of them. But the risk shifts entirely on the tender committee members of that works contract. Another shortcut is using the Cash stores imprest of the AMM to buy NS items routinley. Little to they realise that imprest account does not obviate the process of approval, vetting and sanction of the expenditure. It only makes the mode of payment easy by paying across the counter instead of going through the process of getting the invoice and passing the Bill. Hope that answers your doubts. The biggest problem with our organisation is that we always work on a fire-fighting mode. We always react to situations instead of planning, building the system and process and working towards managing that process. And so people at the operative level (till JAG) have to often face frustation.
pankajp	flexibilty	#7	[-]
Posts: 344 (03/20/09 06:42:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Most of the NS purchase is for repair and maintenance of M&P required for maintenance of Railway assets. Can we stop this NS purchase of spares for repair and maintenance of M&P? why this suspicion about reasonableness of rate requiring submission of minimum two budgetary offer for vetting of NS requisition? Then, what is the purpose of having a tender committee to look into reasonableness of rates? Why provision of GFR enabling purchase upto Rupees 15000/- (without quotation) cannot be implemented on IR?What benefit IR is getting by stopping implementation of this GFR? Cash imprest of material managers is really not required. The bill of suppliers can be paid using Sr.DFM as the bill paying officer, after the bill has been certified by the bill passing officer. Material managers start using delay in recoupment of cash imprest as an excuse for delaying purchase of NS items. You are right. Our system frustrates officers in JAG/SG so much that when a JAG/SG officer reaches SAG he/she sleeps till it is his/her turn to get HAG
scmitra	Bill Passing	#8	[-]
Posts: 584 (03/21/09 05:52:55) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Let me attempt an answer to original query: 1. Though one does not stretch oneself to pass more bills than required, utilization of fund for the work already completed certainly is the need of the hour. Equally important is the fact that the subsequent year's revenue budget bears a correlation to the revenue expenditure of present year hence non utlisation of fund in current year will lead to reduction in next year's allotment (even though the work was completed). Capital expenditure has correlation only with number of works (to be) sanctioned as well as works in progress. Nothing wrong in expediting payment if work has been done. 2. A work which was completed in the #%% end of the year has been paid for from the fund of that year by adjusting the date of cheque, if fund is available. If fund under that plan head received in final grant has been exhausted, even extending the date wont help matters and bills cannot be passed. Public sector banks donot come in picture atall. If you give a cheque to me today dated 21^st February and if I present it to the bank tomorrow on 22^nd March, bank will only assume that I presented the cheque late. Where is the role of the bank? 3. No officer breaks any rule or canons of financial propriety just because it is 31^st March! It is blasphemous to say that unless just bill passing on certification of executives is also considered as breaking canons of propriety! Any specific case can be presented here deleting the names of dramatis personae. 4. Not to my knowledge. Only subject to point 1 above. As a matter of fact, in last few years there has been a trend not to pass the bills in !@# end due to adverse implication on the operating ratio. If I am not wrong, last year in some of the railways, even DA arrears announced were paid in April so that its implication could be felt only in next year. scmitra srdfm/bct Last Edited By: scmitra 03/21/09 05:56:20. Edited 1 times.
pankajp	why not follow system?	#9	[-]
Posts: 345 (03/21/09 10:58:10) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Respected Mitra Sir Why not just follow the laid down procedures as stipulated in codes and manuals? When the sanctioned budget and passed by parliament is not made available to divisions and other spending units on first of April in the financial year, what is the hurry to stretch rules and pass bills till 3/4 of April and show it backdated? Or has IR's finance department just decided to follow state government's PWD functioning in this respect? When all rules are followed for Revenue budget, please follow all rules for Capital budget also. Where is the question of any discretion on part of Finance managers? Just close all books[including cheque book] at 1730 hours of 31st March every year!
scmitra	Bill Passing	#10	[-]
Posts: 585 (03/21/09 22:21:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Pankaj We may as well do as you suggest but tell me what is the objective of doing what you suggest? What are we going to gain when we stop paying the bills for the work already done from the budget of the year going to end? scm
pankajp	Rules	#11	[-]
Posts: 346 (03/22/09 20:37:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Sir Rules are either same for all OR Rules are for Fools. There is no discretion provided in rules to individuals so as to be selective. Gains or Losses are to be evaluated by the rule makers and not by individuals.

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