DFCCIL and IRCTC and Public money

Re: DFCCIL and IRCTC and Public money

feeds@yuku.com (scmitra) — Sat, 06 Dec 2008 21:49:42 GMT

Respected Sir

Request the luxury of your permission to pat myself on my back on your agreeable reponse to my note! The satisfaction of being abe to translate thoughts into words in a precise manner is immense and a bit of self indulgence is called for.
Warm regards
scmitra

Re: DFCCIL and IRCTC and Public money

feeds@yuku.com (Rajaram) — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 03:17:10 GMT

WoW ! Long time one sees such an excellent note in English! Thank you!

Re: DFCCIL and IRCTC and Public money

feeds@yuku.com (irse) — Thu, 29 May 2008 01:29:02 GMT

But if you are a true rail fan like me, you probably enjoy rail travel much more than air travel.

This remind me an old incidence (1997) when one of my senior colleague was to travel from Calcutta to Pune for 2 day seminar .He had sent his tour programe of travelling 40 hr in train (calcutta mail)each way to GM for approval .GM advised him to go by Air (as Railway which used to have large number of mid section derailments can not afford the senior officer out for...

Re: DFCCIL and IRCTC and Public money

feeds@yuku.com (freefall) — Mon, 05 May 2008 09:18:42 GMT

They fly on duty as a matter of routine in contrast to exceptional cases as in ours. Compare a chennai lad spending 50 hours travelling to Delhi and return for a meeting in Rly Board to a guy in a PSU able to do the same in 8 -10 hours (including meeting time). He can leave his house after his breakfast and return for dinner.

Honestly, I believe this is one area where railways are being profligate compared to PSUs and even private sector. How many companies...

Re: DFCCIL and IRCTC and Public money

feeds@yuku.com (Vivekanup) — Thu, 01 May 2008 21:51:33 GMT

Hi Pankajp:
Are we not missing woods for the trees? Talking about financial propriety, is like ICE AGE - 3 ! You just have to see around to get a ball point figure about financial propriety. But its good that people remember it!

Talking about lump sum amount for household items in IRCTC or DFCCIL; whats with it? Rather than linking the canons of financial propriety with such benefits, what is material is that these units are making profits. It should be seen as a percentage of...

Re: DFCCIL and IRCTC and Public money

feeds@yuku.com (pankajp) — Thu, 01 May 2008 20:29:54 GMT

Welcome back Patel Sir

I agree with your observations.

IR's departments work as per their own objectives and most often these objectives cross the stated objectives of IR and that of other departments. But that does not matter.

Re: DFCCIL and IRCTC and Public money

feeds@yuku.com (anil kumar patel) — Thu, 01 May 2008 20:20:22 GMT

I am not sure why one particular allowance is being pinpointed. But just for information (or to rub more salt on your open wounds) there are various other allowances which the forum should know. For example

Its not only one time allowance for household items but also a maintenance cost which in one of PSU is almost 50% of one time value once in few years. It varies from PSU to PSU

One of PSU gives productivity linked bonus to all its officers (unlike ours where they are...

Re: DFCCIL and IRCTC and Public money

feeds@yuku.com (freefall) — Thu, 01 May 2008 07:23:38 GMT

If the policies being adopted by DFCCIL and IRCTC are well justified as per paragraphs of Finance code, why not extend them to IR's project organisations like CORE,COFMOW,IRPMU and construction organisations also?

You are getting confused here between departments within railways and organizations outside railways and the different nature of your relationship with them.

When you joined IR, you signed a service contract with...

Re: DFCCIL and IRCTC and Public money

feeds@yuku.com (subbu98) — Thu, 01 May 2008 00:32:26 GMT

Parag, you've hit the nail bang on its head. Where did the Finance Code come in picture here? I sometimes wonder why do we create PSUs in the first place. I see a lack of understanding at a very fundamental level. If IR has 30,000 crores of its own - and as far as I'm concerned nothing is IR's own, all is government money not unless IR itself is an autonomous entity beyond the government - it should go ahead and merrily lay hazaar freight corridors. Strictly abiding by its Codes...

Re: DFCCIL and IRCTC and Public money

feeds@yuku.com (pkatre) — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:44:55 GMT

This is not only a case of sour grapes but also a case of barking up the wrong tree. After Subbu and Freefall have given their balanced views any further discussion is pointless. The only solution for all this cribbing is to either turn IR into a PSU or as a better option go on frequent deputations to experience better (or alternate) lifestyle and correspondingly a much more professional environment.

Re: DFCCIL and IRCTC and Public money

feeds@yuku.com (pankajp) — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:55:17 GMT

If the policies being adopted by DFCCIL and IRCTC are well justified as per paragraphs of Finance code, why not extend them to IR's project organisations like CORE,COFMOW,IRPMU and construction organisations also?

Or is it a case of enjoying perks while working outside IR and making things difficult for officials working in IR?

It is to be remembered that DFCCIL has no revenue model at present while IRCTC gets its revenue from passengers utilising services of IR. Thus...

Re: DFCCIL and IRCTC and Public money

feeds@yuku.com (subbu98) — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 04:41:34 GMT

How far can you stretch the Canons of Financial Propriety? Or as an anti-thesis where do you draw your 'laxman rekha' as one of the stalwarts of the service used to tell us during our probationary days? Going strictly by the letters of the Canons every item of increase in expenditure that leads to the benefit of an individual or a section of the community would tantamount to a breach. Yet perks and benefits are added purely on merits and justifications thereof. The whole purpose of...

Re: DFCCIL and IRCTC and Public money

feeds@yuku.com (freefall) — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:24:46 GMT

When you join a public sector undertaking, you loose some perks which you were getting earlier and gain some new. Almost invariably, you are placed in a pay grade higher than your parent organization. Should it be considered a case of violation of canons? I do not think so.

Canons stipulate that you spend public money with same prudence as you would do with your own. Now imagine that you have to build a DFC with your own money. For this you need people with railway expertise. Most...

Re: DFCCIL and IRCTC and Public money

feeds@yuku.com (karticc) — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 02:30:28 GMT

IRCTC and DFCCIL may be public sector undertakings but these have to pay Taxes on incomes just like any other private sector business, so where is the harm if some money can be given as "one time lump-sum money for expenditure on household items? " and save on the taxes and retain and attract manpower?
The Finmin is no mute spectator either. Have you heard of FBT?
And as Saurabh said, our own benefits also cost money, say a Saloon? Bungalow Peons? There are many aspects...

Re: DFCCIL and IRCTC and Public money

feeds@yuku.com (scmitra) — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:44:19 GMT

Your anguish is genuine but emotional reaction can attimes be exaggerated. The cost of your passes and PTOs in one year is more than 1 Lakh! Cost of subsidised housing loan given to you is more than a few lakhs!Cost of your Rest House stays in almost all places of India while using those passes and PTOs are almost a Lakh!

Probably what rankles more is the fact of cash (if atall) being given rather than facilities being given, is it? I reiterate, a case of taking propriety to...

Re: DFCCIL and IRCTC and Public money

feeds@yuku.com (pankajp) — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:29:27 GMT

Respected Mitra Sir

Thanks for your reply.

I disagree with your comparison of public sector organisation with private sector as the source of money is different in the two organisations.

IRCTC and DFCCIL have the initial working capital from Railway's own funds, which is public's money.

Also, officials in JAG/SG/SAG already have completed more than six years of service in Railways and must be already having these household items from their...

Re: DFCCIL and IRCTC and Public money

feeds@yuku.com (scmitra) — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:19:45 GMT

Perks and privileges given by an organisation to its members cannot be judged by canons of financial propriety. And it most certainly has nothing to do with the posting of IRAS officers in these organisations. There is a difference between selective privilege and blanket (albeit graded) privilege. When it is a blanket privilege, it becomes more of a renumeration policy and attractiveness-quotient of that organisation from the point of reward to its members increase.

To take a...

DFCCIL and IRCTC and Public money

feeds@yuku.com (pankajp) — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:59:32 GMT

Is it true that all officials in JAG,SG and SAG posted in public sector organisations IRCTC and DFCCIL get one time lump-sum money for expenditure on household items?

If yes, is it not the violation of canons of financial properiety?

Or just because such sanction of public money for household items benefits IRAS officers also [posted in these two organisations] , Canons of financial properiety can be given a goodbye and such policies can be agreed to by Finance...